As I posted in the General Help forum, since the site lacks robust typography tools I have to do a lot of my markup in Photoshop and import the image. The fact that my imported images are treated as second class citizens and considered not part of the finished piece annoys me to no end. Why should I bother trying to make aesthetically pleasing works when the tools at my disposal forbid the incorporation of elements more complex than Flash can deliver?

I say you give contest starters the option to allow imported objects to be saved and let the community decide how to handle the issue.

I dont even know how to use the photo guide, but im sure it will help loads of users to improve their drawings. I agree to the fact that the tool shouldnt be used for copying other peoples work. Though in my opinion the tool should stay, and people should decide for themselves if they want to use it or not. (Maybe it should have a standard text in the bottom saying this artist used the photo guide tool?)

Bye, SFM xx

It shouldnt be on the site, painters like Jan Vermeer and Giovanni Antonio Canal cheated, this is not a place for cheaters.

Oh and I dont think it is actualy possible to draw over a photo using a tablet, it would destroy the photo, and also be less precize because anything in between enlarges the pressure sensitive area.
In fact to draw precize one needs to zoom in into maximum and then draw the details (a photoprint will not zoom), so that's a wrong way of learning to draw here.

I realy think one shold leant to draw by using his hands and his eyes, learn to see something and then reproduce it on paper or on screen, not by tracing.
Give it time and you will be able too draw.

Besides there are Grafiti games, currently you can paint over train, i think that's enough of it, everyone who sees a train knows its from that chalange, and no-one would asume the train itself was also made by the artist. so i think there it is fair , but basicly thats only inking... a talented artist isnt going to be proud of his inking i think, and therefore it shouldnt be promoted to much.
Although i can imagine a learning scenario, people can allready share pictures so others can draw on it; .>>> make a learning corner, where we artist can submit works to be finished by others, so they learn something as well about how to draw.

Many artists use photos as references and/or scale their under drawing from photographs. Why is it any less valid for an online artist to use these tools? It is a training tool for many, building confidence in their artistic ability.

In the UK the art curriculum is biased towards those naturally talented individuals whilst others are told they cannot draw or they are not artistic ... this is very damaging to self-esteem. I have taken photographs since I was old enough to hold a camera, done paper craft, embroidery, interior design, scrapbooking and so on. I do have latent artistic ability but I wasn't trained to locate and develop it in art classes at school, resulting in me believing that I was useless.

I took myself to watercolour classes - because I like watercolours and so have learned to leave my highlights empty and use opposite colours to create shadow ... oh yes and accept happy accidents! But I want to learn different tools and techniques on here and sometimes using an under drawing or blocking in my shadows from a reference photo helps me push my envelope and learn something different. I am not entering competitions, or deceiving anyone ... I am working at training myself because I enjoy making art.

Of course it would be wrong to compromise someone else's copyright and do this - but that is a separate discussion.

>>I would like to know what makes one person think they can come to an established website and tell the owner what to do with his site?<<

rofl...noticed that this is the Suggest a new feature forum...?
So it's pretty obvious what makes such a user come here to say what he thinks lol
oh and about being on this site by my own choice, i joined here coz i thought it was a nice online drawing tool, and i didnt know there was a photoguide tool like that....so thanks for reminding me to leave lol.

@paul
yea, i thought about that option too, and i think it would be a pretty good idea. since lots of ehm..artists dont seem to like a removal of that assistance tool lol

anyways, maybe its better to close this topic, coz i think people seem to be offended by it, even though this wasnt the intention of the thread lol

Hi lime,

I think your concerns are valid, it's quite a difference if you trace or use a reference. That being said it's a slippery slope; ph already mentioned tablet users being able to trace... Technically it's possible to record which pictures are traced (watch out you sneaky tracers ) It might certainly be worth a thought if we should tag traced pictures to make it possible to filter or identify them as being traced. What do you think? Would that be a fair compromise?

cheers

edit: stupid grammar ;(

Well, I can't draw, even trace in a stylish way, but I think art made without tracing or so is worth.
Agree, four stars for the topic.

"As an artist you can use the reference in many ways"
yes. ofc. But there is a difference between reference and tracing. And having a reference doesnt necessarily mean you have to copy it. For me, references are merely assistances. And I think, a good artist doesnt even have to trace outlines, coz, if he's able to see the original object and being able to reproduce sth from his mind, I think thats trully talented. Since tracing outlines dont need skills.

"reference for self-portraits, architecture and landscape"
well, If you can use this as a reference for these specific categories, you can as well use it for everything.
And judging people, you cant rely on the fact that they'll only use the guide for those mentioned topics...

and this isn't a topic wether mouse or tablet is more fair or better, since there are people who can only draw with mouse, or only with tablet, and still it doesnt mean that one is better or not...

"It should be a help"
yes. ofc. but then again, help is comfortable. and comfortableness makes people use it more. and might also lead to a changed behaviour towards drawing. And then I ask myself, what kinda meaning does it have, when art is becoming something so...well...mendacious?

And even if the drawing doesn't have any copyrights, it's just not right to simply copy it...oh well...maybe im just expecting too much sincerity...Again, this thread is not made to offend ~~

First, thanx for your constructive critism and your thoughts about Queeky.
I can follow you thinking about the photo guide tool is something like a "cheat" ...
But actually I think it is more a utility for drawing.

Even some of the old masters used a camera obscura in landscape or architecture painting. One of them is Jan Vermeer or Giovanni Antonio Canal. I'm shure if they had a photo camera, they would have used it too (:

On the other hand I have to admit that I also prefer drawings which were made by reference from the eye, because I think they have more individual style and maybe it is the better way to improve drawing skills ...

You write "But is it fair? I mean, every child can trace. Is art determined by "who copies best" or imagination?",
thats not exactly true. As an artist you can use the reference in many ways. A good drawing usually contains more then some outlines.

But I think you are right in some cases respective the issue about "tracing is stealing ideas", if the drawings just looks like a 1:1 copy of the original, and the original is an artwork with copyright ...

Because I think this is a good issue to discuss, four stars from me

What do other Queeky users think about this topic?

Have a nice weekend
PH